‘You have come up with memory in the last two years?’ Ghislaine’s defense claims first accuser ‘Jane’ told investigators that she couldn’t remember her first sexual encounter with Maxwell and Epstein – but now CAN
- Ghislaine Maxwell’s first accuser known as ‘Jane’ resumed testimony Wednesday under cross examination from the defense
- Maxwell’s lawyer Laura Menninger questioned the alleged victim – who is using the pseudonym Jane – and attempted to undermine the accuser’s memory
- Menninger then told the court that Jane does not recall whether Maxwell ever touched her. ‘That’s not true,’ Jane said
- On Tuesday she said under oath that she was 14 years old when she first had ‘sexual contact’ with Jeffrey Epstein
- She told Prosecutor Alison Moe that Ghislaine Maxwell was in the room during the abuse and joined in
- She detailed how Epstein would have her ‘straddle his face’, ‘pinch his nipples’ and took her into a pool house and then ‘proceeded to masturbate on me’
- ‘Then he went into the bathroom and cleaned himself and acted like nothing happened. I’d never seen that before,’ she said. ‘Jeffrey proceeded to masturbate again. Ghislaine was rubbing on him, kissing on him’
- Maxwell began to give Jane advice about her boyfriends, once telling her: ‘If you f*** them once you can f*** them again because they are grandfathered in’
- Jane said both Maxwell and Epstein were ‘very casual’ about the encounter and acted ‘like this was entirely normal’
Ghislaine Maxwell’s first accuser known as ‘Jane’ resumed testimony Wednesday under cross examination from the defense.
Maxwell’s lawyer Laura Menninger questioned the alleged victim – who is using the pseudonym Jane – and attempted to undermine the accuser’s memory in Day Three of Maxwell’s sex trafficking trial. .
Menninger highlighted differences between the account that Jane gave in court and what she told prosecutors during meetings in 2019 and 2020.
Menninger said that during a December 2019 interview, Jane said she could not remember a specific first time she had sex with Maxwell.
In her evidence the previous day Jane had described in vivid detail how Maxwell and Epstein led her upstairs to the bedroom of his Palm Beach mansion.
Menninger said: ‘You came up with that memory in the last two years? The one you told the jury yesterday?’
Jane said: ‘I don’t believe I came up with a memory, no’.
Menninger said: ‘You gave a memory to the jury yesterday that you didn’t have in December 2019?’
Jane said: ‘I don’t recall’.
This comes after Tuesday’s bombshell testimony that saw Jane accuse Maxwell of being in the room while the billionaire financier abused her.
Maxwell’s lawyer Laura Menninger questioned the alleged victim – who is using the pseudonym Jane – and attempted to undermine the accuser’s memory
Ghislaine Maxwell’s first accuser known as ‘Jane’ resumed testimony Wednesday under cross examination from the defense
Menninger said that Jane has given different accounts of her first meeting with Epstein and Maxwell at the Interlochen arts academy in Michigan in 1994. This photo of Epstein in front of one of his planes was submitted into evidence
Earlier in her testimony Jane said that a different discrepancy could be explained by a ‘typo’ in the write up of her interview with the FBI.
Menninger said that speaking to the FBI in February 2020 she said there were other women involved the first time she had sexual activity with Maxwell, another difference from her testimony.
Maxwell did not appear to react to any of the woman’s testimony, including when Jane pointed her out in court to identify her. The government submitted this photo of Maxwell into evidence
Menninger said sarcastically: ‘Another typo by the government?’
Jane said: ‘Yes’.
Menninger challenged Jane on multiple aspects of her testimony including her claim that Maxwell called her house to ask her to come to Epstein’s home
In her 2019 interview with the FBI, Jane said that ‘Epstein or his office would call your home’, to which Jane replied: ‘I guess so’.
Menninger said: ‘Two years later, you remember that Ghislaine used to call your home to make appointments?’
Jane replied: ‘Right’.
Menninger said witheringly: ‘That memory has come back to you in the last two years?’
Jane said: ‘Memory is not linear’.
Menninger challenged Jane on her claim that Maxwell was there the first time she met her when she was 14 at the Interlochen arts camp in Michigan.
But Jane didn’t tell her two brothers about Maxwell and didn’t tell a journalist about her either, Menninger said.
Menninger said: ‘You didn’t say anything to the reporter about Ghislaine being there?’
Jane replied: ‘Correct’.
Just before the break for morning, Menninger pressed Jane repeatedly on some of her claims about Maxwell being there for sexual episodes with Maxwell.
She said that when Jane spoke with prosecutors in December 2019, Jane told them she was ‘not sure where Maxwell ever touched you during these encounters?’
Jane said: ‘I don’t recall’.
Menninger said You told the government that you are not sure that Maxwell ever kissed you, correct?’
Jane said: ‘I don’t recall’.
Menninger said: ‘You told the government Ghislaine never used sex toys or vibrators on you, correct?’
Jane said: ‘That’s correct’.
Menninger said: ‘You told the government that Ghislaine never saw you perform oral sex on Epstein, correct?’
Jane said: ‘That’s correct’.
Menninger said: ‘You told the government Ghislaine never saw you perform a handjob on Epstein, correct?’
Jane said: ‘I don’t recall’.
Maxwell, 59, who is accused of procuring underage girls for pedophile Jeffrey Epstein, is on trial for sex trafficking charges. She has pleaded not guilty to all charges
Isabel Maxwell, sister of Ghislaine Maxwell, arrives at court for the third day of the trial
Menninger said that Jane told prosecutors that Maxwell was not involved in ‘masturbation’ with Epstein. Jane said she didn’t remember.
Menninger said: ‘You told the government you have no memory of Ghislaine being present when you claim Epstein engaged in any sexual contact with you, correct?
Jane said: ‘I don’t recall’.
As you sit here today you are not sure whether you were ever in a room alone with Ghislaine and Epstein, correct?
Jane said: ‘No’.
Earlier in the day Jane confirmed that a letter of application she sent to Interlochen made no mention of Epstein or Maxwell.
The ‘glowing’ letter from the head of an arts school in Palm Beach said that Jane and her brothers were so talented at singing, music and acting they could be the ‘rebirth of the Von Trapp family’, referring to the Austrian family of singers.
The prosecution have entered several photos of Epstein and Maxwell into evidence, but without a time stamp or explanation behind them.
Jane Testimony Day 1
‘Jane’ took the stand to testify that she was 14 years old when she first had ‘sexual contact’ with Jeffrey Epstein.
In testimony Tuesday afternoon, the woman said Maxwell was in the room during the alleged abuse. Wearing a gray wrap-around sweater, a black dress and black boots, she pushed back her jet black hair and took off her mask after the judge reassured her that the sketch artists could not draw her likeness.
She detailed to Prosecutor Alison Moe how Epstein would have her ‘straddle his face’, ‘pinch his nipples’ and described the first sexual encounter that took place in 1994 when he took her into a pool house and ‘proceeded to masturbate on me.’
Jane said Epstein was talking to her about ‘what I wanted to do’ with her life and said that she had to choose between being an opera singer or an actress or a model. She recalled: ‘He said I know everybody, I know agents, photographers, I can make things happen but you have to be ready for it.
‘The conversation ended abruptly, we were in his office, and he said follow me’.
They went outside to the pool house and Epstein sat on a couch to the right hand side.
‘He pulled his pants down, he pulled me on top of himself and he proceeded to masturbate on me. Then he just got up and went into the bathroom and cleaned himself up and acted as if nothing had happened.’ she said.
‘I was frozen in fear. I had never seen a penis before let alone something like this. I was terrified and I felt gross. I felt ashamed’.
Despite this she continued spending time with Epstein and Maxwell and shortly after, she had her first sexual encounter with Maxwell.
Epstein and Maxwell were talking when ‘all of a sudden they said follow me’ and led her to Epstein’s bedroom in his Palm Beach home.
‘They came into the bedroom and took their clothes off. They started sort of fondling each other and kind of casually giggling,’ Jane said. ‘I was just standing there and he asked me to take my top off and then their hands [were] everywhere and Jeffrey proceeded to masturbate and Ghislaine was rubbing him and kissing him and fondling.’
Jane said Maxwell was ‘very casual’ about the encounter and acted ‘like this was entirely normal. I was confused. When you are 14 you have no idea what is going on.’
The prosecutor asked, ‘Did Maxwell touch your body?’
‘Yes,’ Jane replied, saying the sexual abuse happened ‘every time I visited his house’.
When asked if Epstein touched her, Jane replied, ‘Yes. Everywhere.’
The woman spoke in a strong, deep, voice that only faltered when she was describing in graphic detail the sex acts Epstein and Maxwell allegedly did to her.
Maxwell did not appear to react to any of the woman’s testimony, including when Jane pointed her out in court to identify her.
Wearing a black high-neck top and grey cardigan, Jane had a tissue scrunched up in her hand and nabbed her nose when she became emotional. Her voice began shaking when she told how Epstein would ‘touch her everywhere’.
Ghislaine Maxwell’s first accuser known as ‘Jane’ took the stand Tuesday to testify that she was 14 years old when she first had ‘sexual contact’ with Jeffrey Epstein
She detailed how Epstein would have her ‘straddle his face’, ‘pinch his nipples’ and took her into a pool house and then ‘proceeded to masturbate on me’
She shuffled in her seat and took off her cardigan, appearing hot and a bit flustered.
In brief breaks, Jane avoided any eye contact with Maxwell, who looked away from the witness box.
On the one occasion Jane did look over in her direction Maxwell was joking with her lawyers.
As her visits to Epstein’s home became more regular, Jane said that both Epstein and Maxwell would instruct her on how to massage him.
Jane said: ‘He liked it very hard, like rubbing his shoulders very hard, twisting his nipples hard’.
Ghislaine Maxwell faces up to 80 years in prison if found guilty. This photo was entered into evidence yesterday
Jane would later say that Epstein liked her to twist his nipples while he was abusing her.
Asked what Maxwell’s demeanor was like during this, Jane said: ‘It seemed very casual, it was very normal. It’s not a big deal’.
Jane said it made her feel ‘confused because that did not feel normal to me because I had never seen anything like that and it was very embarrassing….when you’re 14 you have no idea what’s going on’.
Asked if Epstein touched her body, Jane said that he touched her ‘breasts, vagina’.
Moe asked if Epstein used sex toys, telling her: ‘I’m sorry to ask you this but could you please describe what happened’.
Jane appeared to come close to tears as she said: ‘He liked vibrators, they were different sizes, even a back massager. He’d put it on my vagina, even if I said it hurt’.
Asked where Maxwell touched her, Jane said it was ‘mainly my breasts’.
Moe asked where Epstein liked to be touched and Jane said that it was ‘from head to toe’ and that this happened ‘every visit to his house’.
Moe asked if there were times when other people took part in sex and Jane said yes, adding that it usually happened in the massage room or the bedroom in Epstein’s Palm Beach home.
She said that Maxwell would encourage others to ‘start taking their clothes off, Jeffrey would get on the massage table and it would turn into this orgy’.
Jane said: ‘It was kissing, oral sex with each other, oral sex with Jeffrey, full on intercourse’.
Asked if sex toys were used, Jane said yes and that vibrators were used on girls’ vaginas.
Moe asked the gender of the other people in the orgy and Jane said: ‘Female’.
Asked their age, she said: ‘Older than me but I don’t know’.
Moe asked how often these kind of sex sessions took place when she was aged between 14 and 16 and she said: ‘Almost every visit with him. (I was going) every two weeks’.
Jane said that she traveled with Epstein and Maxwell about 10 times when she was aged between 14 and 16 and flew to his homes in New York and New Mexico.
She found his New York mansion ‘creepy’ because of all the pictures of naked girls on the walls, she told the jury.
Jane said during her testimony Tuesday that the abuse at his New York home would happen in the massage room
During the trips to New Mexico, Jane said she spent most of her time at his Zorro Ranch ‘in the middle of nowhere’. She recalled a time when she was 15 and someone came into her room and said, ‘Jeffrey wants to see you’ and escorted her to see him
Jane described how in 1993 she was ’12, going on 13′ and living in Palm Beach, Florida with her family when tragedy struck – her father, a composer, died of leukemia. Pictured is Epstein’s Palm Beach mansion
Jane described how she first came to know Epstein in 1993. She was ’12, going on 13′ and living in Palm Beach, Florida with her family when tragedy struck – her father, a composer, died of leukemia.
His employers had canceled his health insurance and when he did their family ‘went into complete bankruptcy and lost everything’, Jane said.
The following summer, relatives cobbled together the money to pay for her and her brothers to go to Interlochen, a summer arts camp in Michigan.
It was nine months after her father died, Jane said.
She remembered that one day she and her classmates were ‘on a bench eating ice cream’ when a ‘tall, thin woman approached us’.
Jane said: ‘She was walking a cute little Yorkie and we asked if we could pet the dog. We started chit chatting and the rest of my classmates had to go to class’.
Shortly after a man came to join Jane and Maxwell. Jane said: ‘I was still eating my ice cream…he seemed very interested to know what I thought of the camp. They said they were big benefactors of this camp and gave out different kinds of scholarships and wanted to know the students’ perspective’.
When Jane said she was from Palm Beach, Epstein replied: ‘What a coincidence! We live there too. What are your parents names? (I said) my father has just died’.
Epstein said that he ‘definitely’ knew her mother and then asked for her number which Jane handed over.
She seemed surprised but handed it over and the conversation ended with ‘nice to meet you’.
Around a month later, when Jane was back at middle school, somebody from Epstein’s office called her home and asked her and her mother round for tea at his mansion in Palm Beach
Their visit lasted around 30 minutes and Epstein told Jane’s mother that he was ‘very impressed’ with her and wanted her to come back next time and sing for him.
So began Jane’s regular visits to Epstein’s house where Maxwell would often be at home.
Jane said she was ‘confused’ by the exact relationship between the two of them and initially thought they were married but later wasn’t sure.
She said that Maxwell was approximately the same age as her older sister .
Prosecutor Moe asked: ‘How old were you when you first started spending time with Epstein and Maxwell?
Jane said: ‘Fourteen’.
An early incident which left Jane ‘shocked’ was one day when she went out by the pool and saw Maxwell and four other women topless. Jane ‘hadn’t seen that before’, she told the jury.
Jane described Maxwell as ‘a bit odd and quirky’ and said she ‘used to tease me, but she was nice’.
Jane said: ‘I think she may have said I’m like an older sister (to you)’. At the time Jane’s older sister was 27 and Maxwell was in her early 30s.
Epstein began to give Jane money as she left the house after each visit, which were around every week or two, telling her that her ‘mother was having a hard time, it’s not a big deal’.
Epstein began to buy Jane clothes and other things.
The six charges against Ghislaine Maxwell:
Conspiracy to entice minors to travel to engage in illegal sex acts (5 years max sentence)
Enticement of a minor to travel to engage in illegal sex acts (20 years)
Conspiracy to transport minors with intent to engage in criminal sexual activity (20 years)
Transportation of a minor with intent to engage in criminal sexual activity (10 years minimum, life maximum)
Sex Trafficking Conspiracy
Sex Trafficking of a Minor
Ghislaine Maxwell also faces two charges of perjury but those counts are due to be tried after her sex crimes trial.
The charges relate to testimony she gave in 2016 in a defamation case filed against her by Epstein accuser Virginia Giuffre.
Prosecutors say Maxwell groomed three girls between 1994 and 1997 for Epstein.
They are not named in the indictment, but she allegedly targeted them in London, Florida, New York and New Mexico.
Maxwell, it is alleged, would befriend the girls by asking them about their life and their schooling. She would put them at ease by taking them to the movies and taking them shopping, winning their trust to later deliver them to Epstein, it’s alleged.
To ‘normalize’ the abuse that would come later, prosecutors say she undressed in front of the girls herself and asked them sexual questions.
She then not only facilitated Epstein abusing them, prosecutors say, but took part in some of it herself.
The alleged sex abuse includes ‘sexualized group massages’.
The indictment also says Maxwell made the girl feel ‘indebted’ to Epstein by encouraging them to take money from him and let him pay for their education and travel.
She gave Jane advice about her boyfriends, once telling her: ‘If you f*** them once you can f*** them again because they are grandfathered in’.
Jane said: ‘I giggled because I didn’t understand what grandfathered meant’.
Epstein and Maxwell took her to Victoria’s Secret to buy her underwear: Jane said she bought the ‘basic white kind’ that younger people buy.
Maxwell and Epstein would brag about knowing famous people like Donald Trump and Bill Clinton which left Jane feeling ‘intimidated’, she told the jury.
She said she traveled to his other homes about ten times in New York and New Mexico on Epstein’s private plane and described the décor.
‘Art, sculptures. Pictures of famous people, presidents. I thought some of the art was odd – naked women, creepy animals,’ she recalled.
She said the abuse at his New York home would happen in the massage room.
During the trips to New Mexico, Jane said she spent most of her time at his Zorro Ranch ‘in the middle of nowhere’.
Jane cried when she talked about how one of Epstein’s aides entered her guest room at his ranch, saying the financier wanted her in his bedroom. ‘I felt my heart sink. I didn’t want to go see him’.
She asked the prosecutor ‘do you need me to explain in detail?’ as she appeared pained when describing the abuse in detail. She repeatedly asked Moe to repeat questions, failing to understand.
Jeffrey Epstein’s ‘Lolita Express’ pilot has taken the stand as the prosecution’s witness in Day 2 of Ghislaine Maxwell’s trial
Maxwell’s lawyer Laura Menninger cross examined Jane, asking her if it was correct that she waited 20 years to speak to law enforcement.
Jane said that was correct.
Menninger asked if it was correct that Jane said she ‘escaped’ Epstein in 1999 and she confirmed that it was.
Menninger said: ‘The first time you spoke to law enforcement was after Epstein was dead’. Jane said: ‘Yes’.
Menninger said that during the last 20 years Jane had spoken to family members and a boyfriend about Epstein.
Menninger said that Jane had ‘never mentioned that Ghislaine Maxwell had sexually assaulted you’ to any of them.
Jane said: ‘I don’t know’.
Jane said: ‘I was reluctant to go into details about embarrassing, shameful and despicable things…I didn’t want to share it with them in the first place’
Menninger said: ‘Did you tell them about Epstein?’
Jane replied: ‘Yes I did’.
Menninger said: ‘Did you talk to them about Ghislaine Maxwell?’
Jane said: ‘I don’t know’.
Asked why she wanted to give evidence using a pseudonym, Jane said that she had a family and children.
She said: ‘I work in the entertainment industry and victim shaming is still very present to this day and I was afraid it was going to affect my career if somebody looks at me and that’s all they see and wouldn’t hire me based on that.
Cross examination of Jane will continue on Wednesday.
‘Lolita Express’ Pilot
Earlier on Tuesday, Larry Visoski, Epstein’s chief pilot who flew the pedophile financier for more than 25 years, said he was introduced to Jane in the cockpit of the ‘Lolita Express’ in the mid to late 90s.
‘Mr. Epstein brought her to the cockpit. She had piercing powder blue eyes,’ Visoski said.
Maxwell’s attorney Christian Everdell asked during cross examination, ‘And beyond the striking blue eyes, you have said she had large breasts, right?’
Visoski answered that she was ‘a mature woman.’
When asked if he remembers Virginia Roberts, Visoski replied, ‘Yes. A shorter woman with dirty blonde hair.’
‘She didn’t look young. I mean, whatever you decipher is the definition of young. But she was a woman in my category,’ he added.
Despite being called as a prosecution witness, Visoski’s testimony appeared to aid the defense.
‘I never saw any sexual activity, no,’ Visoski said, but admitted that he could not see everything that went on. Asked if he ever saw any sex toys, condoms or clothing strewn about the plane, he said no and denied seeing any sexual activity of any kind.
Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein are shown, left, in 1997. The pilot of the Lolita Express, Lawrence Visoki, right, testified on Tuesday that Trump flew on the plane
Maxwell entered the Manhattan courtroom Tuesday morning wearing a cream sweater, black slacks and looked on as Visoski was questioned.
Visoski revealed Donald Trump flew on Epstein’s private plane.
‘I certainly remember President Trump, but not many people associated with him,’ Visoski said, adding that Trump’s flights happened before he was president.
Visoski also confirmed that President Bill Clinton, Prince Andrew and Kevin Spacey were all aboard his flights. He added that he was asked to clean up after Clinton’s flight, but did not elaborate.
Visoski said that the doors to the cabin on Epstein’s planes were always shut and he had no way of observing what was going on.
The famous names came up in the context of whether Visoski knew who was flying on the Gulfstream G2B and Boeing 727, known as the Lolita Express.
During cross examination, Everdell asked Visoski: ‘Are you aware of Prince Andrew, the Duke of York, he is the son of Queen Elizabeth II of England’.
Visoski replied: ‘Yes’.
Everdell said: ‘Did he fly on Epstein’s planes?’
Visoski replied: ‘Yes’
Everdell asked: ‘Do you recall the first time he flew on a plane?’
Visoski said: ‘No I don’t.
Earlier Everdell asked Visoski if he knew the names of all the people who flew on his plane, and he said no.
Everdell said: ‘Former President Bill Clinton flew on Epsten’s plane a few times in the 2000s?’
Visoski replied: ‘Yes he did’.
Everdell said: ‘You might be told that information in advance so you might make sure the plane was looking nice, special catering?’
Visoski replied: ‘Sure’.
Visoski also confirmed that Les Wexner, the founder of The Limited, which owns Victoria’s Secret, was on planes that he flew.
Visoski said that doors between the cockpit and the passenger cabin were closed but he said that he could go to the back whenever he wanted to use the toilet. He again said he never saw any sexual activity.
Previously unsealed flight logs revealed that Trump was among passengers on a flight from Palm Beach to Newark in 1997 along with Eva and Glenn Dubin
A photo from 2002 on a trip to Africa shows Clinton standing on the steps of Epstein’s plane with his arm on the shoulder of a smiling Maxwell
Curiously, during his cross examination by Everdell, Visoski was asked: ‘Ghislaine never appeared to be pregnant?’
Visoski said no.
Everdell asked: ‘Did anyone ever tell you she was pregnant?’
Visoski said that nobody ever said that.
Everdell asked if the pilot ever saw pictures of her pregnant. He replied: ‘No I did not’.
Visoski said Maxwell ‘was the Number 2’ and that ‘Epstein was the big Number 1’ when asked about their relationship.
When asked how many other assistants Epstein had in addition to Maxwell, he replied that there were many, identifying Maxwell’s own assistants.
He specifically named Sarah Kellen – who has been accused of playing a pivotal role in Epstein’s empire: procuring girls, coaching them and acting as a ‘lieutenant’ to Maxwell.
Visoski was also asked to identify parts of Epstein’s 10,000-acre Zorro Ranch in New Mexico where airplanes were parked.
He said he would often go to the main residence to pick up luggage and help install electronics. Visoski said he performed similar tasks on Epstein’s private Caribbean island Little St. James and would also fly the helicopter to the island from nearby St. Thomas.
He added that the island could also be reach by boat.
Defense’s Opening Statement
On Monday during opening statement, Maxwell’s defense attorney Bobbi Sternheim began by introducing ‘Jane’ as a ‘talented musician and a singer from a musical family.’
She took aim at Jane and attempted to discredit her account.
She described Jeffrey Epstein as a ‘patron of the arts and a supporter of young talent, sponsored musicians and artists and actresses and others.’
Epstein, Sternheim said, became Jane’s benefactor and paid for her schooling, vocal lessons and even cosigned for an apartment on Wall Street where Jane lived with her mother and brothers.
‘A month before Epstein’s arrest in 2019, Jane did not want to be involved in any criminal case regarding Epstein,’ Sternheim said. ‘But after Epstein died, she changed her mind.
‘When money was on the line, she changed her mind. She hired a lawyer, she became a client, they got in touch with the government, and said she changed her mind.
‘Why? Because assisting the government would help a claim with the Epstein fund.’
Lawyer Bobbi Sternheim took the floor to deliver the defense’s opening statements Monday, saying she is ‘proud’ to represent Maxwell
Sterheim added that once Epstein died and Jane had a lawyer by her side she suddenly ‘remembers all this horror that happened to her and places Ghislaine at the center of it all.’
‘Hundreds of things that happened to her that no one knew about, not her mother, not her brothers, not her teachers, not staff at the house, not her coaches, all of this that the government claims happened and she didn’t skip a beat, nobody ever noticed anything amiss.’
Sternheim said that ‘Jane’ is a now a successful actress on a soap opera and has been on sitcoms, reality shows, movies, podcasts and drama series.
‘She is a consummate actress. She is a pro at playing roles. And as her scripts and characters change, so has her story that you will hear in this courtroom,’ Sternheim said.
‘I ask you to examine her testimony, and you will find internal inconsistencies. When money was on the line, she tagged Ghislaine.’
Sternheim revealed that Jane received $5million from the victims fund.
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